Nightblade will be the most busted class in U46

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 28

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Not enough crit resist you say? my Templar has 4800 crit resistance.

That's not enough. Subtract 4800 crit resist (72.7%) from whatever their crit damage is.

Example: 140 crit damage - 72 resist = 68% final crit damage

Also, Farstrider cuts 4800 resist down to 2880 and it's easy to proc on NB with Ambush.

That is 4800 unbuffed.

Theignson · April 28

Crit damage afaik has always been capped at 125%

Crit dmg vs Crit resist doesn’t work like resists vs penetration, so going over 125% is wasted, right?

silky_soft · April 28

I welcome it, crit resist should of always been capped at 60%. Bring back the old days when I could sneak into a full 24 man raid and nuke the vampire dk raid lead before my guild dropped in on them. Or nuking people in the transit lanes towards a siege.

There is not enough offence counters to passive defence in this game. Where is the silence/null poison or scribing skills? Why can't I buff strip or steal with a scribe skill or poison? Get the those cost increase poisons back to 60%. You dont give me a kit, I'll go for unbalanced crit.

With the smoother animations at my 240ms I've been able to pull of combos much easier. Going to be good seeing some silly numbers in pvp again without using proc sets.

FoJul · April 28

Theignson wrote: »

Crit damage afaik has always been capped at 125%

Crit dmg vs Crit resist doesn’t work like resists vs penetration, so going over 125% is wasted, right?

No, it's not wasted.

From my best understanding, if you have soft cap crit of 125% crit damage. You are hitting 2.25x harder. With no crit resist in question. A 10k non crit assassin's will, should hit for 22k ish.

Ok with rallying cry and a few impen you can reach 3k crit resist. That will knock only the crit bow (22k) down to about 15-16k.

Whats happening is , the crit resist negates similarly to major/minor protection.

So if you have 150% crit damage, that is over the soft cap. Your bow will still only hit for that 22k number we mentioned earlier.

The only difference is, thst person with rallying cry and impen will only knock thst (22k) number down to 20k.

If you have 165% crit damage, they will need an impossible to obtain amount of crit resist to negate thst 22k bow.

But soft cap is 125% so for the numbers in my example, the 22k bow would be max in this situation.

Turtle_Bot · April 28

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

I still also think merciless/relentless damage should be separated into an initial hit + short duration dot

Make it so slow it bleeds into a 2nd gcd too. They must know StamSorc pain.

Don't forget to also reduce its total damage by 50% (with another 10% nerf in U46), remove the free weapon/spell damage per stack and remove the heal that for some reason is unaffected by battle spirit.

Alchimiste1 · April 29

There’s still time to yeet hybridization !

FoJul · April 29

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

No that's not gonna fix it lol. Still crazy busted. Whole thing needs to be nuked.

With all due respect, they would have to nuke pretty much EVERYTHING so that sub-classing or multi-classing system would not produce game breaking results. It is not the fault of class skills. Those were never designed to be paired in combo with skills or passives sourced from the other class. And it is not just stacking crit chance or penetration or raw spell / weapon damage. Currently, you can also stack sustain skills & passives or damage reduction. Like for real, on PTS you can actually make something that is close to perma-streak build by using sustain skills that sorc was never meant to have (just like NB was never meant to have templar skill line & vice versa). Worst part is that ZOS instead of backing out from this idea & making it limited to a certain degree is making this system with pretty much no penalties & drawbacks and (most likely) they 100% know that it will destroy any balance that is left in this game and will cause a wave of nerfs that will follow. And it is not like one patch will fix it, oh no. People will find whatever next is the most broken combination and use that. It will be repeated a couple of times till we are left with a useless class skills and sub-classing will be a necessity rather than something optional - which is something it should be in a 1st place - something optional and not something that will launch the meta into the orbit.

Or bring other skills lines up to par. I don't feel like nuking things is necessary, we been in the tank meta too long. And now we can actually do real damage.

Just bring other skill lines up to par so everyone's playstyles can eat. Each class has atleast 1 skill line thst is ready to go when subclassing hits. Just make all the skill lines good.

Make it a difficult decision to get rid of one of your skill lines.

katorga · April 29

FoJul wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

No that's not gonna fix it lol. Still crazy busted. Whole thing needs to be nuked.

With all due respect, they would have to nuke pretty much EVERYTHING so that sub-classing or multi-classing system would not produce game breaking results. It is not the fault of class skills. Those were never designed to be paired in combo with skills or passives sourced from the other class. And it is not just stacking crit chance or penetration or raw spell / weapon damage. Currently, you can also stack sustain skills & passives or damage reduction. Like for real, on PTS you can actually make something that is close to perma-streak build by using sustain skills that sorc was never meant to have (just like NB was never meant to have templar skill line & vice versa). Worst part is that ZOS instead of backing out from this idea & making it limited to a certain degree is making this system with pretty much no penalties & drawbacks and (most likely) they 100% know that it will destroy any balance that is left in this game and will cause a wave of nerfs that will follow. And it is not like one patch will fix it, oh no. People will find whatever next is the most broken combination and use that. It will be repeated a couple of times till we are left with a useless class skills and sub-classing will be a necessity rather than something optional - which is something it should be in a 1st place - something optional and not something that will launch the meta into the orbit.

Or bring other skills lines up to par. I don't feel like nuking things is necessary, we been in the tank meta too long. And now we can actually do real damage.

Just bring other skill lines up to par so everyone's playstyles can eat. Each class has atleast 1 skill line thst is ready to go when subclassing hits. Just make all the skill lines good.

Make it a difficult decision to get rid of one of your skill lines.

The tank meta is not going anywhere. Everyone is focusing on broken dps things, but subclassing will make it even easier to build tanky with damage or make troll tanks even more un-killable.

FoJul · April 29

katorga wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

No that's not gonna fix it lol. Still crazy busted. Whole thing needs to be nuked.

With all due respect, they would have to nuke pretty much EVERYTHING so that sub-classing or multi-classing system would not produce game breaking results. It is not the fault of class skills. Those were never designed to be paired in combo with skills or passives sourced from the other class. And it is not just stacking crit chance or penetration or raw spell / weapon damage. Currently, you can also stack sustain skills & passives or damage reduction. Like for real, on PTS you can actually make something that is close to perma-streak build by using sustain skills that sorc was never meant to have (just like NB was never meant to have templar skill line & vice versa). Worst part is that ZOS instead of backing out from this idea & making it limited to a certain degree is making this system with pretty much no penalties & drawbacks and (most likely) they 100% know that it will destroy any balance that is left in this game and will cause a wave of nerfs that will follow. And it is not like one patch will fix it, oh no. People will find whatever next is the most broken combination and use that. It will be repeated a couple of times till we are left with a useless class skills and sub-classing will be a necessity rather than something optional - which is something it should be in a 1st place - something optional and not something that will launch the meta into the orbit.

Or bring other skills lines up to par. I don't feel like nuking things is necessary, we been in the tank meta too long. And now we can actually do real damage.

Just bring other skill lines up to par so everyone's playstyles can eat. Each class has atleast 1 skill line thst is ready to go when subclassing hits. Just make all the skill lines good.

Make it a difficult decision to get rid of one of your skill lines.

The tank meta is not going anywhere. Everyone is focusing on broken dps things, but subclassing will make it even easier to build tanky with damage or make troll tanks even more un-killable.

I don't know about it. Its easy to make crit resist useless now, and giving spec bow 2 bow procs on top of easily reaching crit cap. Im not so sure about anyone being tanky, and if they are there is no way they have the same damage output has the crit cap merciless build.

Additionally, you can line up burst way easier with spec bow, and have it hit quite hard, very often. The necro thing I showed earlier in this thread, can do a BB-Merciless rotation every 5 seconds. Sure you can live the first 2. But how long are you gonna sustain getting nuked to 10% HP.

Not to mention Killers blade can hit 10k+ through block.

I think just having the option to go all damage, will also play a part in killing the tank meta. It's a lot more satisfying nuking someone than holding block spamming burst heal.

Will the tanky builds be eradicated. Of course not, they never will. That's like saying gankers wont ever gank again.

But everyone running rallying cry, literally on any build, they finna find out that rallying cry won't be enough anymore.

Alchimiste1 · May 1

@FoJul I’m almost positive that if burst is too high from “subclassing” then the majority of Cyrodiil players are going to focus way more on building defensively. Has happened every patch.

Average Cyrodiil player still have 45k health and 2 defensive skill lines.

Major_Toughness · May 2

FoJul wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

No that's not gonna fix it lol. Still crazy busted. Whole thing needs to be nuked.

With all due respect, they would have to nuke pretty much EVERYTHING so that sub-classing or multi-classing system would not produce game breaking results. It is not the fault of class skills. Those were never designed to be paired in combo with skills or passives sourced from the other class. And it is not just stacking crit chance or penetration or raw spell / weapon damage. Currently, you can also stack sustain skills & passives or damage reduction. Like for real, on PTS you can actually make something that is close to perma-streak build by using sustain skills that sorc was never meant to have (just like NB was never meant to have templar skill line & vice versa). Worst part is that ZOS instead of backing out from this idea & making it limited to a certain degree is making this system with pretty much no penalties & drawbacks and (most likely) they 100% know that it will destroy any balance that is left in this game and will cause a wave of nerfs that will follow. And it is not like one patch will fix it, oh no. People will find whatever next is the most broken combination and use that. It will be repeated a couple of times till we are left with a useless class skills and sub-classing will be a necessity rather than something optional - which is something it should be in a 1st place - something optional and not something that will launch the meta into the orbit.

Or bring other skills lines up to par. I don't feel like nuking things is necessary, we been in the tank meta too long. And now we can actually do real damage.

Just bring other skill lines up to par so everyone's playstyles can eat. Each class has atleast 1 skill line thst is ready to go when subclassing hits. Just make all the skill lines good.

Make it a difficult decision to get rid of one of your skill lines.

The tank meta is not going anywhere. Everyone is focusing on broken dps things, but subclassing will make it even easier to build tanky with damage or make troll tanks even more un-killable.

I don't know about it. Its easy to make crit resist useless now, and giving spec bow 2 bow procs on top of easily reaching crit cap. Im not so sure about anyone being tanky, and if they are there is no way they have the same damage output has the crit cap merciless build.

Additionally, you can line up burst way easier with spec bow, and have it hit quite hard, very often. The necro thing I showed earlier in this thread, can do a BB-Merciless rotation every 5 seconds. Sure you can live the first 2. But how long are you gonna sustain getting nuked to 10% HP.

Not to mention Killers blade can hit 10k+ through block.

I think just having the option to go all damage, will also play a part in killing the tank meta. It's a lot more satisfying nuking someone than holding block spamming burst heal.

Will the tanky builds be eradicated. Of course not, they never will. That's like saying gankers wont ever gank again.

But everyone running rallying cry, literally on any build, they finna find out that rallying cry won't be enough anymore.

Where is Aedric Spear?

Aside from that, obviously Blastbones are good and fit the exact same propose as Shalks. I would even argue for duels Blastbones are stronger if you don't need bar space so can run ele sus.

However when outnumbered, in my opinion, Shalks are way more reliable as you know when they will hit unlike Blastbones dumb AI, free up a bar slot (probably for something defensive next patch), grants minor breach without needed absorb stam glyph, and I think the skill line passives are better.

But the play style and combo with Shalks and Blastbones is the exact same.

fred4 · May 2

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@FoJul I’m almost positive that if burst is too high from “subclassing” then the majority of Cyrodiil players are going to focus way more on building defensively. Has happened every patch.

I agree. There was a summer patch a good while ago. I think it was when NB was also really strong in PvE. I think it was due to the ease of obtaining either crit % or crit damage. I went into Cyro and it was like "whoa", I can kill people so easily. I was really suishy myself, but I was a nightblade, used to defending with cloak and speed, and I had the most damage. Only 6 weeks later, the whole population was wearing Pariah and similar sets. Ever since then I've believed that ZOS don't have all that much control over the meta.

FoJul · May 2

Major_Toughness wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

No that's not gonna fix it lol. Still crazy busted. Whole thing needs to be nuked.

With all due respect, they would have to nuke pretty much EVERYTHING so that sub-classing or multi-classing system would not produce game breaking results. It is not the fault of class skills. Those were never designed to be paired in combo with skills or passives sourced from the other class. And it is not just stacking crit chance or penetration or raw spell / weapon damage. Currently, you can also stack sustain skills & passives or damage reduction. Like for real, on PTS you can actually make something that is close to perma-streak build by using sustain skills that sorc was never meant to have (just like NB was never meant to have templar skill line & vice versa). Worst part is that ZOS instead of backing out from this idea & making it limited to a certain degree is making this system with pretty much no penalties & drawbacks and (most likely) they 100% know that it will destroy any balance that is left in this game and will cause a wave of nerfs that will follow. And it is not like one patch will fix it, oh no. People will find whatever next is the most broken combination and use that. It will be repeated a couple of times till we are left with a useless class skills and sub-classing will be a necessity rather than something optional - which is something it should be in a 1st place - something optional and not something that will launch the meta into the orbit.

Or bring other skills lines up to par. I don't feel like nuking things is necessary, we been in the tank meta too long. And now we can actually do real damage.

Just bring other skill lines up to par so everyone's playstyles can eat. Each class has atleast 1 skill line thst is ready to go when subclassing hits. Just make all the skill lines good.

Make it a difficult decision to get rid of one of your skill lines.

The tank meta is not going anywhere. Everyone is focusing on broken dps things, but subclassing will make it even easier to build tanky with damage or make troll tanks even more un-killable.

I don't know about it. Its easy to make crit resist useless now, and giving spec bow 2 bow procs on top of easily reaching crit cap. Im not so sure about anyone being tanky, and if they are there is no way they have the same damage output has the crit cap merciless build.

Additionally, you can line up burst way easier with spec bow, and have it hit quite hard, very often. The necro thing I showed earlier in this thread, can do a BB-Merciless rotation every 5 seconds. Sure you can live the first 2. But how long are you gonna sustain getting nuked to 10% HP.

Not to mention Killers blade can hit 10k+ through block.

I think just having the option to go all damage, will also play a part in killing the tank meta. It's a lot more satisfying nuking someone than holding block spamming burst heal.

Will the tanky builds be eradicated. Of course not, they never will. That's like saying gankers wont ever gank again.

But everyone running rallying cry, literally on any build, they finna find out that rallying cry won't be enough anymore.

Where is Aedric Spear?

Aside from that, obviously Blastbones are good and fit the exact same propose as Shalks. I would even argue for duels Blastbones are stronger if you don't need bar space so can run ele sus.

However when outnumbered, in my opinion, Shalks are way more reliable as you know when they will hit unlike Blastbones dumb AI, free up a bar slot (probably for something defensive next patch), grants minor breach without needed absorb stam glyph, and I think the skill line passives are better.

But the play style and combo with Shalks and Blastbones is the exact same.

The post about the blastbones build with the 1 shot combo, doesn't have aedric spear. That is a separate build.

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@FoJul I’m almost positive that if burst is too high from “subclassing” then the majority of Cyrodiil players are going to focus way more on building defensively. Has happened every patch.

Average Cyrodiil player still have 45k health and 2 defensive skill lines.

Yeah, true people are still tanky, but i strongly feel like the burst can handle it. Mainly spec bow and literally any other delayed burst skill timed together is lethal.

The defensive skill lines usually arent easy to stack on a build when comparing stacking damage skill lines. Having 3 crit damage passives is huge for making builds.

If you take 2 defensive lines, odds are you'll lack kill potential.

Its not hard to reach over crit/over pen on any build .

Spec bow is meta, and if you disagree you are defending it. I'm a nb mains and this is nonsense.

Zos's excuse to defend it will be "well if it is so OP, than pick the skill line up for your build."

Duke_Falcon · May 19

I seriously think Gilliam the Rogue is still working for ZoS and secretly sneaking in buffs for his main/Nightblade thinking Brian Wheeler will never notice this, it'll be fine. lol

cuddles_with_wroble · May 20

in terms of damage bow is the hardest hitting skill in the game, followed very closely by frag, blast bones and then second hit of deep fissure, all within 5-6% damage of eachother so literally any combination of 2 of these skills nets you more damage than anything you can do in base game without ult and balorghs

Also offense in eso scales way harder than defense so even if you take 3 defensive skill lines you will most definitely still be kill able by someone with 2 offensive skill lines and over capped Crit

Urzigurumash · May 20

And all 4 of those are ranged. I've seen it said a few times, this patch the strong will get stronger, the weak will get weaker. So melee is like totally done for OW and BGs?

Corrosive really needs to be limited to melee range skills, shoulda always been but it never really mattered prior to Hybridization.

cuddles_with_wroble · May 20

Urzigurumash wrote: »

And all 4 of those are ranged. I've seen it said a few times, this patch the strong will get stronger, the weak will get weaker. So melee is like totally done for OW and BGs?

Corrosive really needs to be limited to melee range skills, shoulda always been but it never really mattered prior to Hybridization.

Ranged skills sure but most people are melee bcs it’s best to stack Crit damage with axes

Even on live most meta builds are melee but lower skilled players prefer range so there’s a lot of sorcs and bow blades around

Urzigurumash · May 20

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

And all 4 of those are ranged. I've seen it said a few times, this patch the strong will get stronger, the weak will get weaker. So melee is like totally done for OW and BGs?

Corrosive really needs to be limited to melee range skills, shoulda always been but it never really mattered prior to Hybridization.

Ranged skills sure but most people are melee bcs it’s best to stack Crit damage with axes

Even on live most meta builds are melee but lower skilled players prefer range so there’s a lot of sorcs and bow blades around

Well what about potato farming, thats what most of BGs is now without a good MMR. Vamp Claw is neccesary to square up and take down a tanky vet sure but in a typical 4v4 the Ranged spec next to you will have the opposing team wiped before you're in melee range.

I propose a Minor Evasion against Projectiles maybe, i.e. Beckoning Steel as a buff. Or something.

Urzigurumash · May 20

Ofc, the meta for 4v4s is.. Crit Healing.

xylena_lazarow · May 21

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Anyone who takes Aedric Spear needs to get their head checked.

Just take Animal Companions.

On PTS there were several top level duelers using Aedric for the high damage unblockable Jav stun to enable combos. The recently buffed passives are strong, and Crescent is an excellent AoE damage ult. Animals is a strong line, but good stuns are in weirdly short supply, especially stuns that can both deal damage and bypass block.

Oh right NBs. Yeah the Assassin line is beyond nuts. Get ready for zone chats to light up with players hard convinced that the double spec bow is a new cheat going around. Can't believe they buff NB again but still won't give me god mode.

FoJul · May 25

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

And all 4 of those are ranged. I've seen it said a few times, this patch the strong will get stronger, the weak will get weaker. So melee is like totally done for OW and BGs?

Corrosive really needs to be limited to melee range skills, shoulda always been but it never really mattered prior to Hybridization.

Ranged skills sure but most people are melee bcs it’s best to stack Crit damage with axes

Even on live most meta builds are melee but lower skilled players prefer range so there’s a lot of sorcs and bow blades around

One of the strongest builds on live is rangeplar. Range builds deff have their advantages especially in cyro and bgs.

Also with the new mythic , you can get over the crit cap without axes and can still chose whatever sets.

FoJul · June 1

Major_Toughness wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

They're both good but I wouldn't say you need to get your head checked if you take Aedric Spear. That's a bit much.

Burning Light is around 5% of damage in PvP.
Balanced Warrior translates to roughly 360 wd/sd and 1800 armor for your average build.
Piercing Spear's 12% crit damage without having to slot anything is pretty damn good.

Animal Companion passives did get a buff as you mentioned but not every build runs shalks or needs the sustain.

Burning Light is 5% of what?
Running how many dots? How many of you are zerging the target so you can get consistent ticks off?
That's also currently on a Templar and not with Subclassing. How could you possibly say it does 5% damage when all fights are different.
If I "one shot" someone with Incap and Bow I don't think Burning Light will do any damage.

Aedric Spear has no delayed burst which is critical is killing good and/or tanky players.

Sure the Spear stun is good but so is hitting 15k Shalks at the same millisecond as a 20k bow and freeing up a bar slot. Not having to run Ice Staff for ele sus.

Honestly it's a no-brainer.

Assassination has no delayed burst yet its the best skill line in the game...

cuddles_with_wroble · June 1

FoJul wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

And all 4 of those are ranged. I've seen it said a few times, this patch the strong will get stronger, the weak will get weaker. So melee is like totally done for OW and BGs?

Corrosive really needs to be limited to melee range skills, shoulda always been but it never really mattered prior to Hybridization.

Ranged skills sure but most people are melee bcs it’s best to stack Crit damage with axes

Even on live most meta builds are melee but lower skilled players prefer range so there’s a lot of sorcs and bow blades around

One of the strongest builds on live is rangeplar. Range builds deff have their advantages especially in cyro and bgs.

Also with the new mythic , you can get over the crit cap without axes and can still chose whatever sets.

I did not know that about the new mythic plus staffs so ty for the info

And I am very interested to see how strong rangeplar will be after this due to the nerfs of radiant. Most people I fought had Assasination slotted so I never really got hit by the beam.

ZhuJiuyin · June 1

Interesting. The most buffed class in U46, complaining that it will be the most failed in U46.
Assassination gets a lot of crit and Weapon and Spell Damage.
Shadow's Dark Vigor increases Max Health per Shadow ability slotted by 5%, instead of 3%.
Siphoning gets more ultimate points, as well as Max Magicka and Stamina, instead of just Max Magicka.

Alchimiste1 · June 1

After playing on pts for a bit I have to say I was wrong. They didn’t buff spectral bow enough !

Zos, please make bow aoe next.

xylena_lazarow · June 1

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Zos, please make bow aoe next.

But it has to be a special AoE that ignores damage reduction from Evasion.

Duke_Falcon · June 5

Range builds only benefit from being ranged if you have someone in front of you to take aggro. The targeting on melee is much much easier in fast paced combat. If your on a ranged build and your in a 1v1 or if your Xing mulitple targets it is much more difficult to play ranged, because your targeting has to be exact, there is no room, zero for being off on your target even a little bit. If your off even the slightest bit you will target something other than whats intended, or your skills simply won't fire. Literally the marker icons you place on yourself or group members will block your targeting on someone if your playing from range and prevent your skill from firing. Pets will block your skills from firing if your ranged. Melee is much more consistent targeting than ranged targeting.