No Mag Sorc nerfs this patch? Umm ok?

SkaraMinoc · March 3

Mag Sorc hits harder than any other class in the game right now other than Arterial Burst NB ganker. Except Mag Sorc has the best survivability in the game. I literally have to adjust my build just to deal with Mag Sorcs.

Mag Blade? No problem. DoT DK? No problem. Acuity Warden with Northern Storm? No problem I can handle it.

Mag Sorc is on another level.

Imagine 50-60k max magicka + 4-5k wd/sd for an effective 9-10k power on a +66% damage Crystal Frags proc with 80%+ crit damage and 18k+ pen that is cast every 4 seconds on average. Now add Curse, Shocking Soul, Overload/DB, etc. You're dead. You never had a chance.

So where are the nerfs ZOS?

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Mag Sorc hits harder than any other class in the game right now other than Arterial Burst NB ganker. Except Mag Sorc has the best survivability in the game. I literally have to adjust my build just to deal with Mag Sorcs.

Mag Blade? No problem. DoT DK? No problem. Acuity Warden with Northern Storm? No problem I can handle it.

Mag Sorc is on another level.

Imagine 50-60k max magicka + 4-5k wd/sd for an effective 9-10k power on a +66% damage Crystal Frags proc with 80%+ crit damage and 18k+ pen that is cast every 4 seconds on average. Now add Curse, Shocking Soul, Overload/DB, etc. You're dead. You never had a chance.

So where are the nerfs ZOS?

I'm sure there is a spreadsheet somewhere on one of the devs desktops where it is laid out very clearly that this is within normal or acceptable ranges. And that this spreadsheet, or a PowerPoint with the high level summary of the contents of the spreadsheet, was shared at a design meeting where these changes were approved and deemed acceptable.

I mean, why else would they have buffed ward so much? Zos wouldn't purposely create imbalance in the game or make changes to classes without thoroughly understanding the impact of said changes, and to the actual game, to balance for both pve and pvp, without consulting the spreadhseet. Think about how incredibly irresponsible that would be...

They would never do that. There has to be a spreadhseet...

Zallion · March 4

Not only your point on mag sorc, but no changes whatsoever. All eggs put into the proverbial vengeance test basket.

Necro still struggling. Temp needs damage outside of meteor javelin jbeam, and arcanist is dog water tier especially after null arca nerf and the prior gutting of their defensive kit not to mention their already wet noodle offensive kit.

Not only maybe fine tuning sorc ward, but holy guacamole bump some other classes up to be on par with sorc nb warden dk. No changes is insane.

Renato90085 · March 4

only me feel zos class balance way is "a class is weak tier in pve so this class need op tier in pvp ?" and opposite is also work

MincMincMinc · March 4

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Mag Sorc hits harder than any other class in the game right now other than Arterial Burst NB ganker. Except Mag Sorc has the best survivability in the game. I literally have to adjust my build just to deal with Mag Sorcs.

Mag Blade? No problem. DoT DK? No problem. Acuity Warden with Northern Storm? No problem I can handle it.

Mag Sorc is on another level.

Imagine 50-60k max magicka + 4-5k wd/sd for an effective 9-10k power on a +66% damage Crystal Frags proc with 80%+ crit damage and 18k+ pen that is cast every 4 seconds on average. Now add Curse, Shocking Soul, Overload/DB, etc. You're dead. You never had a chance.

So where are the nerfs ZOS?

I'm sure there is a spreadsheet somewhere on one of the devs desktops where it is laid out very clearly that this is within normal or acceptable ranges. And that this spreadsheet, or a PowerPoint with the high level summary of the contents of the spreadsheet, was shared at a design meeting where these changes were approved and deemed acceptable.

I mean, why else would they have buffed ward so much? Zos wouldn't purposely create imbalance in the game or make changes to classes without thoroughly understanding the impact of said changes, and to the actual game, to balance for both pve and pvp, without consulting the spreadhseet. Think about how incredibly irresponsible that would be...

They would never do that. There has to be a spreadhseet...

You'd think they would do a standard where the skills have a base value that is balanced, but then each class has a passive added value to each skill calculated. For instance maybe sorc gets 4 passives that do X on a skill, but Warden has 15 passives that do Y on a skill. So in turn the base tooltip may be higher.

Or its just a general standard and then balance based on a crapshoot of what gets complained about enough.

xylena_lazarow · March 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Or its just a general standard and then balance based on a crapshoot of what gets complained about enough.

Problem is they don't seem to have standards for PvP where speed, range, and reliability become a lot more important than just raw parse numbers on a giant stationary monster. Even a strong class like Warden is still forced to drop its class spammable bird skill for the faster and more reliable vamp slash on competitive builds.

Part of what makes MagSorc so overpowered right now is how quickly, easily, and consistently it lands hard hits, from max 41m range with aim assist no less. Their spammable options are all quick instant cast. Their delayed burst is a quick instant cast that's also sticky and requires no aim (unlike Warden shalks). Their crystal shard nuke is instant, their overload or meteor ults are instant. Again, all max 41m range, no artificial delays, no jank, all nuke.

MagSorc can hit near 20k tooltips (with bonus cleave damage) on their instant scribing spammable, while the 2h scribing skill for melee brawler builds that can't even hit 10k apparently needs almost a full gcd cast time? They have it absurdly backwards, not a single melee skill should ever have a CAST delay. They swing swords, not cast. Cast delays belong on ranged CASTers, who are named because they sit safely at range where they can safely CAST elaborate spells.

Meanwhile Arc DD cries in the PvP corner. Well it would, but its tears keep missing the target.

Thumbless_Bot · March 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Mag Sorc hits harder than any other class in the game right now other than Arterial Burst NB ganker. Except Mag Sorc has the best survivability in the game. I literally have to adjust my build just to deal with Mag Sorcs.

Mag Blade? No problem. DoT DK? No problem. Acuity Warden with Northern Storm? No problem I can handle it.

Mag Sorc is on another level.

Imagine 50-60k max magicka + 4-5k wd/sd for an effective 9-10k power on a +66% damage Crystal Frags proc with 80%+ crit damage and 18k+ pen that is cast every 4 seconds on average. Now add Curse, Shocking Soul, Overload/DB, etc. You're dead. You never had a chance.

So where are the nerfs ZOS?

I'm sure there is a spreadsheet somewhere on one of the devs desktops where it is laid out very clearly that this is within normal or acceptable ranges. And that this spreadsheet, or a PowerPoint with the high level summary of the contents of the spreadsheet, was shared at a design meeting where these changes were approved and deemed acceptable.

I mean, why else would they have buffed ward so much? Zos wouldn't purposely create imbalance in the game or make changes to classes without thoroughly understanding the impact of said changes, and to the actual game, to balance for both pve and pvp, without consulting the spreadhseet. Think about how incredibly irresponsible that would be...

They would never do that. There has to be a spreadhseet...

You'd think they would do a standard where the skills have a base value that is balanced, but then each class has a passive added value to each skill calculated. For instance maybe sorc gets 4 passives that do X on a skill, but Warden has 15 passives that do Y on a skill. So in turn the base tooltip may be higher.

Or its just a general standard and then balance based on a crapshoot of what gets complained about enough.

The standards would be in Spreadsheet.

Thumbless_Bot · March 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Or its just a general standard and then balance based on a crapshoot of what gets complained about enough.

Problem is they don't seem to have standards for PvP where speed, range, and reliability become a lot more important than just raw parse numbers on a giant stationary monster. Even a strong class like Warden is still forced to drop its class spammable bird skill for the faster and more reliable vamp slash on competitive builds.

Part of what makes MagSorc so overpowered right now is how quickly, easily, and consistently it lands hard hits, from max 41m range with aim assist no less. Their spammable options are all quick instant cast. Their delayed burst is a quick instant cast that's also sticky and requires no aim (unlike Warden shalks). Their crystal shard nuke is instant, their overload or meteor ults are instant. Again, all max 41m range, no artificial delays, no jank, all nuke.

MagSorc can hit near 20k tooltips (with bonus cleave damage) on their instant scribing spammable, while the 2h scribing skill for melee brawler builds that can't even hit 10k apparently needs almost a full gcd cast time? They have it absurdly backwards, not a single melee skill should ever have a CAST delay. They swing swords, not cast. Cast delays belong on ranged CASTers, who are named because they sit safely at range where they can safely CAST elaborate spells.

Meanwhile Arc DD cries in the PvP corner. Well it would, but its tears keep missing the target.

I'm sure they have a standard that they go by and that sorc is acceptable based completely on this standard... in the spreadsheet.

MincMincMinc · March 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Or its just a general standard and then balance based on a crapshoot of what gets complained about enough.

Problem is they don't seem to have standards for PvP where speed, range, and reliability become a lot more important than just raw parse numbers on a giant stationary monster. Even a strong class like Warden is still forced to drop its class spammable bird skill for the faster and more reliable vamp slash on competitive builds.

Part of what makes MagSorc so overpowered right now is how quickly, easily, and consistently it lands hard hits, from max 41m range with aim assist no less. Their spammable options are all quick instant cast. Their delayed burst is a quick instant cast that's also sticky and requires no aim (unlike Warden shalks). Their crystal shard nuke is instant, their overload or meteor ults are instant. Again, all max 41m range, no artificial delays, no jank, all nuke.

MagSorc can hit near 20k tooltips (with bonus cleave damage) on their instant scribing spammable, while the 2h scribing skill for melee brawler builds that can't even hit 10k apparently needs almost a full gcd cast time? They have it absurdly backwards, not a single melee skill should ever have a CAST delay. They swing swords, not cast. Cast delays belong on ranged CASTers, who are named because they sit safely at range where they can safely CAST elaborate spells.

Meanwhile Arc DD cries in the PvP corner. Well it would, but its tears keep missing the target.

Almost sounds like you are advocating for pvp specific skills (vengeance system) We can only hope for pvp specific balancing.

xylena_lazarow · March 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Almost sounds like you are advocating for pvp specific skills (vengeance system) We can only hope for pvp specific balancing.

My ESO fanfiction would be to remove all the cast delays from melee skills, and slam them on every relevant ranged skill, as long as the numbers line up in PvE it's not like npc mobs are going to deliberately abuse your slow telegraphed ranged nukes, so who cares. Also I'm deleting Rushing Agony and replacing it with Hunding's Rage 2: Hunding's Revenge.

Afterip · March 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Problem is they don't seem to have standards for PvP where speed, range, and reliability become a lot more important than just raw parse numbers on a giant stationary monster. Even a strong class like Warden is still forced to drop its class spammable bird skil for the faster and more reliable vamp slash on competitive builds.l

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

My ESO fanfiction would be to remove all the cast delays from melee skills, and slam them on every relevant ranged skill, as long as the numbers line up in PvE it's not like npc mobs are going to deliberately abuse your slow telegraphed ranged nukes, so who cares..

lol

Thumbless_Bot · March 4

Usable birds on Warden would be 🔥 but it would probably be too strong for ranged spammable... too strong for a balanced game anyway.

xylena_lazarow · March 4

Afterip wrote: »

lol

See? This is why players shouldn't pretend to be devs, and why I called it fanfiction, and not my totally sincere and legitimate "suggestion" that I expect professional game developers to take seriously.

Also in my fanfiction the Warden bird is replaced by a melee spammable, so there.

xFocused · March 4

Cries as a Necro Main

But seriously, mag sorcs are incredibly overpowered next to RoA.

WuffyCerulei · March 4

What exactly are other sorcs running? I run whatever I feel is fun in pvp, so I don’t really stay in touch with the meta builds.

Afterip · March 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

See? This is why players shouldn't pretend to be devs, and why I called it fanfiction, and not my totally sincere and legitimate "suggestion" that I expect professional game developers to take seriously.

Also in my fanfiction the Warden bird is replaced by a melee spammable, so there.

Six months ago, you said that ranged skills too strong, and now you're writing that you've replaced bird with vamp claws. Remember "gun vs knifes"?

SkaraMinoc · March 4

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

What exactly are other sorcs running? I run whatever I feel is fun in pvp, so I don’t really stay in touch with the meta builds.

Torc of the Last Ayleid King hits very hard on Mag Sorc. It's comparable to Max Magicka Sorc or even higher damage. But the difference is you have 25k max health and Vibrant Shroud. Your survivability is very low compared to Max Magicka Sorc.

xylena_lazarow · March 4

Afterip wrote: »

Six months ago, you said that ranged skills too strong, and now you're writing that you've replaced bird with vamp claws. Remember "gun vs knifes"?

Because the bird isn't a gun, it's a foam nerf football.

Thumbless_Bot · March 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Afterip wrote: »

Six months ago, you said that ranged skills too strong, and now you're writing that you've replaced bird with vamp claws. Remember "gun vs knifes"?

Because the bird isn't a gun, it's a foam nerf football.

But it makes such a cool bird-like sound that I imagine a cliff racing bird might make... as it flies sloooowly towards where the enemy was when I cast it...

Afterip · March 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Because the bird isn't a gun, it's a foam nerf football.

If you dont like birds, you could pick something of this: Crushing Shock, Crushing Weapon, Elemental Weapon, Chilling Soul or Bloody Soul.
But you picked "knife".

xylena_lazarow · March 4

Afterip wrote: »

But you picked "knife".

Sorc is a gun. Warden is a storm.

LukosCreyden · March 4

Ooh, a nerf sorc thread?
How nostalgic.

silky_soft · March 4

The range buff is pretty bad in pvp. Range buff from battlespirit needs to go. If it needs to exist for keeps, then put it all into reach. Completely removing it from duels, BG and IC.

Crystal frag proc has always been crazy. Why doesn't snipe have a similar mechanic? Imagine if spectral bow had a free proc like that with no build up or shalks got an instant proc right after activating or dark flare got the same proc or wrecking blow. All those heat seeking skills with the damage buff, pretty insane.

SkaraMinoc · March 4

silky_soft wrote: »

Crystal frag proc has always been crazy.

Not sure if it still works but a few years ago you could Cast Frags > Stop Casting hotkey > repeat every 300 ms until it procs. Then you hold the precasted proc until you need it. Using that trick only takes about 1 second to guarantee a proc.

Nowadays it's probably better to just spam Shocking Soul but back then you could precast a Frags proc and line up a juicy burst combo.

Xarc · March 4

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Mag Sorc is on another level.

^
this

not only sorcs have the best combos, all classes combined,
but they have huge spammable shields based on HP, not to mention the TP morph which does damage and triggers the explosion of the mage's fury (ultimate)

all solo sorcs who master TP & shield spam survive easily,
and if they also master combos (crystal proc, curse, TP stun + spammable + light attack + possibly meteor), with a sufficient %crit & pen it's over for almost anyone

imagine playing mag nb (not tank or not bomber against a sorc in duel, good luck)

xFocused · March 4

Xarc wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Mag Sorc is on another level.

^
this

not only sorcs have the best combos, all classes combined,
but they have huge spammable shields based on HP, not to mention the TP morph which does damage and triggers the explosion of the mage's fury (ultimate)

all solo sorcs who master TP & shield spam survive easily,
and if they also master combos (crystal proc, curse, TP stun + spammable + light attack + possibly meteor), with a sufficient %crit & pen it's over for almost anyone

imagine playing mag nb (not tank or not bomber against a sorc in duel, good luck)

Yep. Have to agree. Sorcs have one of the most broken spammables (shield) in the game right now, and even if you can get a mag sorc down to almost dead they just streak streak streak away until they can spam shield again, lol

Thumbless_Bot · March 4

xFocused wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Mag Sorc is on another level.

^
this

not only sorcs have the best combos, all classes combined,
but they have huge spammable shields based on HP, not to mention the TP morph which does damage and triggers the explosion of the mage's fury (ultimate)

all solo sorcs who master TP & shield spam survive easily,
and if they also master combos (crystal proc, curse, TP stun + spammable + light attack + possibly meteor), with a sufficient %crit & pen it's over for almost anyone

imagine playing mag nb (not tank or not bomber against a sorc in duel, good luck)

Yep. Have to agree. Sorcs have one of the most broken spammables (shield) in the game right now, and even if you can get a mag sorc down to almost dead they just streak streak streak away until they can spam shield again, lol

It's not broken. The spreadsheet would know.

TechMaybeHic · March 5

I was not a fan of scribing as anything worthwhile also homogonizes the class; but they make it worse by having the ranged spammable a lot more acceptable than anything melee.

I've always had my gripes about the game but really fell off when more options actually lead to less variety and boring classes.

Morvan · March 5

Sorc is definitely super overtuned on PvP, they can invest nearly everything into damage, have incredible survivability thanks to Ward, and guess what? That's all on the most mobile class in the game.

Sorcs will struggle to lose 1v1 against any other class, and if they find themselves in a bad situation, they can just spam Ward or Streak away and cross the whole map with a few casts.

They have everything on PvP, damage, mobility and survivability.

MincMincMinc · March 5

I like how magsorc is a political standpoint like inflation or interest rates.

"magsorc is up this patch, what is this world coming to"

"Heard the fed is going to cut magsorc, about time"

Xarc · March 5

everybody: "mag sorcs are overpowered!!!"

magsorc: "hahaha, cry more"