PVP bugs + Macro use?

Lucasalex92

So its third time i am being poisoned and it keep showing this and it does deal damage when u receive damage

also i want to ask question if macros are allowed ? because a player use on me Evicarate but when i died it showed that i died from 4 different class spells which all deal 10-20k dmg which this player didnt had animation other then keep using evicerate on me

Desiato

Using macros or scripts to automate combat is against the rules.

However, they are not capable of doing what you proposed. A player using macros is still bound by GCDs and decent players can execute rotations within hundreds of miliseconds or less of the gcd.

To better understand how fights unfold, I suggest using a combat log addon that reports in ms.

Dock01

wait ,ive gotten those even in bg, are they cheats or visual bugs ??

Lucasalex92

Dock01 wrote: »

wait ,ive gotten those even in bg, are they cheats or visual bugs ??

not really sure weird

Desiato wrote: »

Using macros or scripts to automate combat is against the rules.

However, they are not capable of doing what you proposed. A player using macros is still bound by GCDs and decent players can execute rotations within hundreds of miliseconds or less of the gcd.

To better understand how fights unfold, I suggest using a combat log addon that reports in ms.

i wouldn't belive that because it would show animation and not many spells that dealt damage to me but in some case u might be right - firstly i wouldnt belive it cuz people are capable of anything just to get advantage even if it means cheating

Desiato

Lucasalex92 wrote: »

i wouldn't belive that because it would show animation and not many spells that dealt damage to me but in some case u might be right - firstly i wouldnt belive it cuz people are capable of anything just to get advantage even if it means cheating

Believe what you want, but in general if someone wants a conjecture to be taken seriously, they have to provide evidence. You don't even have line by line combat logs to show us.

To be clear, there is nothing a macro can do that a player cannot. That's not to say macros/scripts don't benefit some players, but decent players can do everything a macro can.

Vulkunne

Lucasalex92 wrote: »

So its third time i am being poisoned and it keep showing this and it does deal damage when u receive damage

also i want to ask question if macros are allowed ? because a player use on me Evicarate but when i died it showed that i died from 4 different class spells which all deal 10-20k dmg which this player didnt had animation other then keep using evicerate on me

I see where this is coming from. What you have, is something about Eviscerate seems like it allows for it be cast in quick succession or with other skills. No, I don't have combat logs, but I've had more than a few encounters of people swiping me one time with that or something else like Blood-for-Blood and just taking me down instantly at full health and with a ton of mitigation.

Something is going on with that. Because it used to happen with Surprise Attack but now watch out for anyone using Eviscerate but I swear I've never died so fast. No CC applied either. Something is wrong here and I think it might be safe to say those who are using this a certain way don't want it taken away. Like Rush of Agony users, stuff like that.

This is a reason I no longer PvP in BGs. I don't goto IC anymore either because this sort of thing is all over the place there like cancer. You don't stand a chance if they catch you. No one is going to tell us what they're doing, they're attacking so fast its nearly impossible to make any sense out of it. Besides, even if you had logs someone would probably fight till the bitter end over it and make anyone else look foolish for questioning whatever it is they're doing; I've seen this behavior in game and sometimes on here as well.

Being more careful, identify small groups of troublemakers moving really really fast in order to avoid them and less prone to blind fighting in PvP seems the only real counter to this. And if you're anywhere in PvP and not in a group, stay quiet, especially if you are farming or questing. When in PvP I'd suggest thinking about going into Offline mode if you wish, because friends or guild members can possibly see your zone/delve location while in 'online' status. And a great many of you might be considering XP farming in IC right now, so... watch out.

Best of luck.

Desiato

If this is actually happening, then it should be very easy to prove it with combat logs. Casual observations are not really evidence of anything.

Unsubstantiated claims just muddy the waters and actually help cheaters by making anyone who expresses a suspicion, valid or not as paranoid or uninformed.

Layered damage with timed burst is something every decent pvp player does and it is common for players who don't run combat logs to fail to understand what happened when encountering them.

Like seriously, this is the most common misunderstanding in eso pvp.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong here, but we need evidence.

moderatelyfatman

Is this the same bug that has been around for years in Cyrodiil that requires you to got to Cheesemongers to remove?
If so, it looks like it has migrated to BGs.
Hopefully it will make its way to PvE where it will eventually get patched into a much milder form that can be ignored.

Unfadingsilence

Those are just visual bugs they dont effect your character its been in the game for about 10 years now

Aces-High-82

You cant circumvent the GCD system but you can circumvent the periodical server checks and influence the packet communication between the server and the client on purpouse.
Further those visual bugs can meet and proc set conditions eg Trial by Fire.

BXR_Lonestar

Desiato wrote: »

Using macros or scripts to automate combat is against the rules.

However, they are not capable of doing what you proposed. A player using macros is still bound by GCDs and decent players can execute rotations within hundreds of miliseconds or less of the gcd.

To better understand how fights unfold, I suggest using a combat log addon that reports in ms.

It doesn't mean they aren't being used though. I recently reported someone who is using one in Cyrodil to chain together skills that shouldn't be able to chain together because of channel times, and what seems to happen is it always (I mean literally - ALWAYS) causes you to desync. You are dead before you even feel the first skill hit you, and when you res, you have this weird out-of-body experience going on where you are up and running, but you can't see your body or interract with anything or cast abilities. To fix this, you have to do a hard reset, clear cache, delete saved game data, etc. just so you can get back into the game to play normally.

So just because they're against the rules and still bound by GCD doesn't mean something improper isn't going on, especially if it is regularly causing bad desyncs.

madman65

I have had PVP gamers hit me with 5 attack`s in under 2 seconds, this has happened a few times I don`t like to PVP but I help my friends. I have read a few discussions about pinging the server and using a macro so yes it can occur. I did have someone to actually hit me with Ice Comet 3 times well they got reported so yes this can occur and a combat log would help but I myself have seen this a few times. Here`s my question: will it stop? no!

My suggestion is take a screenshot everytime you get killed, use combat metrics and look at the combat logs.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

This is a bug which can occur with any buff or debuff depending on the server state if it registers that it expires correctly or not.

The most annoying one is the 'streak' bug which occurs and makes you constantly break free instead of bashing.

These bugged buffs/debuffs are only removed when transitioning zone or relogging.



As for the thing about macro's as other users have said macro's dont 'speed up' what is possible to do manually they just make it easily repeatable.

What you got hit by is delayed damage skills + animation cancelling most likely.

For example Light attack + Skill + Bash can all occur within basically 1 GCD. then you can also be hit with skills which were pre-casted or have some timed explosion affect. Examples of which are 'Ulfsilds Contingency', 'Deep Fissure', 'Proximity detonation' as well as many others

Aces-High-82

LA, Bash and regular skills have seperate cd's - so its Skill+LA+3xBash within a single GCD

CameraBeardThePirate

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

LA, Bash and regular skills have seperate cd's - so its Skill+LA+3xBash within a single GCD

Well sort of. Due to lag time between the server and client you can't fit that last bash in even if you were to use a macro. LA+Skill+Bash+Bash

Desiato

See, even in this thread, there are examples of conjectures based on other conjectures. That's the problem with unsubstantiated claims.

So someone is going to read this thread, later die in a way they don't understand in PVP and take these posts at face value -- instead of learning how they actually died so they can try to avoid that in the future.

Meanwhile actual cheaters will point to threads like these and be like "omg eso players so paranoid cheat engine lololololol" to better muddy their activities. This has been the case for 11 years.

If you want to make an accusation, please only do so with solid evidence including line by line combat logs that report in milliseconds and videos. Screenshots of the ESO death recap are irrelevant.

Vulkunne

Desiato wrote: »

See, even in this thread, there are examples of conjectures based on other conjectures. That's the problem with unsubstantiated claims.

So someone is going to read this thread, later die in a way they don't understand in PVP and take these posts at face value -- instead of learning how they actually died so they can try to avoid that in the future.

Meanwhile actual cheaters will point to threads like these and be like "omg eso players so paranoid cheat engine lololololol" to better muddy their activities. This has been the case for 11 years.

If you want to make an accusation, please only do so with solid evidence including line by line combat logs that report in milliseconds and videos. Screenshots of the ESO death recap are irrelevant.

You don't need to be a chemist to know where there's smoke there's fire.

We're just here looking for some help but criticizing us for talking about the problem isn't helpful. I mean the way some of these things happen there's no guarantee we really have the right tools for all the data someone else might 'demand' from us.

Lucasalex92

Vulkunne wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

See, even in this thread, there are examples of conjectures based on other conjectures. That's the problem with unsubstantiated claims.

So someone is going to read this thread, later die in a way they don't understand in PVP and take these posts at face value -- instead of learning how they actually died so they can try to avoid that in the future.

Meanwhile actual cheaters will point to threads like these and be like "omg eso players so paranoid cheat engine lololololol" to better muddy their activities. This has been the case for 11 years.

If you want to make an accusation, please only do so with solid evidence including line by line combat logs that report in milliseconds and videos. Screenshots of the ESO death recap are irrelevant.

You don't need to be a chemist to know where there's smoke there's fire.

We're just here looking for some help but criticizing us for talking about the problem isn't helpful. I mean the way some of these things happen there's no guarantee we really have the right tools for all the data someone else might 'demand' from us.

the problem with toxicity in this forum is, no matter what is your personal opinion people will bark at you so mad ready to hurt you or your opinion for no reason, no reason to argue - i wish there was way to close comments for normal players and leave it for someone like Mods or Semi Admins to reply or at least aknowledge ...

and you are very right we do not have right tools to shows us in game either, the game should not allow to use multiple skills without animation, or should force player to cut the current skill to show animation and perfom other skill ( see how much that will trigger people now)

BXR_Lonestar

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is a bug which can occur with any buff or debuff depending on the server state if it registers that it expires correctly or not.

The most annoying one is the 'streak' bug which occurs and makes you constantly break free instead of bashing.

These bugged buffs/debuffs are only removed when transitioning zone or relogging.



As for the thing about macro's as other users have said macro's dont 'speed up' what is possible to do manually they just make it easily repeatable.

What you got hit by is delayed damage skills + animation cancelling most likely.

For example Light attack + Skill + Bash can all occur within basically 1 GCD. then you can also be hit with skills which were pre-casted or have some timed explosion affect. Examples of which are 'Ulfsilds Contingency', 'Deep Fissure', 'Proximity detonation' as well as many others

What is bolded may be true but when a macro is used in conjunction with ESO's desyncing in PVP, you can have 5+ skills hit you within an instant and you will be dead before any damage is registered. It is absolutely ridiculous. In PVE, a macro would give you an advantage in terms of consistent DPS (no human error). There is a reason using such a tool is not allowed in this game.

MJallday

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is a bug which can occur with any buff or debuff depending on the server state if it registers that it expires correctly or not.

The most annoying one is the 'streak' bug which occurs and makes you constantly break free instead of bashing.

These bugged buffs/debuffs are only removed when transitioning zone or relogging.



As for the thing about macro's as other users have said macro's dont 'speed up' what is possible to do manually they just make it easily repeatable.

What you got hit by is delayed damage skills + animation cancelling most likely.

For example Light attack + Skill + Bash can all occur within basically 1 GCD. then you can also be hit with skills which were pre-casted or have some timed explosion affect. Examples of which are 'Ulfsilds Contingency', 'Deep Fissure', 'Proximity detonation' as well as many others

What is bolded may be true but when a macro is used in conjunction with ESO's desyncing in PVP, you can have 5+ skills hit you within an instant and you will be dead before any damage is registered. It is absolutely ridiculous. In PVE, a macro would give you an advantage in terms of consistent DPS (no human error). There is a reason using such a tool is not allowed in this game.

this already happens in PVP on consoles - desynicing and basically obliterate you on 0.1 of a second. you wont even see who killed you sometimes.

Lucasalex92

MJallday wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is a bug which can occur with any buff or debuff depending on the server state if it registers that it expires correctly or not.

The most annoying one is the 'streak' bug which occurs and makes you constantly break free instead of bashing.

These bugged buffs/debuffs are only removed when transitioning zone or relogging.



As for the thing about macro's as other users have said macro's dont 'speed up' what is possible to do manually they just make it easily repeatable.

What you got hit by is delayed damage skills + animation cancelling most likely.

For example Light attack + Skill + Bash can all occur within basically 1 GCD. then you can also be hit with skills which were pre-casted or have some timed explosion affect. Examples of which are 'Ulfsilds Contingency', 'Deep Fissure', 'Proximity detonation' as well as many others

What is bolded may be true but when a macro is used in conjunction with ESO's desyncing in PVP, you can have 5+ skills hit you within an instant and you will be dead before any damage is registered. It is absolutely ridiculous. In PVE, a macro would give you an advantage in terms of consistent DPS (no human error). There is a reason using such a tool is not allowed in this game.

this already happens in PVP on consoles - desynicing and basically obliterate you on 0.1 of a second. you wont even see who killed you sometimes.

exactly, that mean it calls for visual fixing

zaria

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is a bug which can occur with any buff or debuff depending on the server state if it registers that it expires correctly or not.

The most annoying one is the 'streak' bug which occurs and makes you constantly break free instead of bashing.

These bugged buffs/debuffs are only removed when transitioning zone or relogging.



As for the thing about macro's as other users have said macro's dont 'speed up' what is possible to do manually they just make it easily repeatable.

What you got hit by is delayed damage skills + animation cancelling most likely.

For example Light attack + Skill + Bash can all occur within basically 1 GCD. then you can also be hit with skills which were pre-casted or have some timed explosion affect. Examples of which are 'Ulfsilds Contingency', 'Deep Fissure', 'Proximity detonation' as well as many others

What is bolded may be true but when a macro is used in conjunction with ESO's desyncing in PVP, you can have 5+ skills hit you within an instant and you will be dead before any damage is registered. It is absolutely ridiculous. In PVE, a macro would give you an advantage in terms of consistent DPS (no human error). There is a reason using such a tool is not allowed in this game.

Except an macro locks you into an rotation, it might be useful for an novice bomber or ganker where you comit anyway, I played with them a bit back after Morrowind launched trying to get an optimal rotation to measure against, it did not work out and would not work on anything other than an dummy as even in an dungeon you need to do stuff like stay out of stupid and other mecanics.
Cheat engine is another matter but think its mostly used for afk bots, and probably stuff like the long range detect life effect in Oblivion or wallhack. But not cheating on global cooldowns.
Now that you can do is first cast something with an travel time, then something instant and and another LA,
You get hit by all 3 at once, if you have lots of lag it get worse.

Aces-High-82

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

LA, Bash and regular skills have seperate cd's - so its Skill+LA+3xBash within a single GCD

Well sort of. Due to lag time between the server and client you can't fit that last bash in even if you were to use a macro. LA+Skill+Bash+Bash

Well lets just say you can choke your client packets to be sent when you think they are ready to be sent.

Sluggy

Vulkunne wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

See, even in this thread, there are examples of conjectures based on other conjectures. That's the problem with unsubstantiated claims.

So someone is going to read this thread, later die in a way they don't understand in PVP and take these posts at face value -- instead of learning how they actually died so they can try to avoid that in the future.

Meanwhile actual cheaters will point to threads like these and be like "omg eso players so paranoid cheat engine lololololol" to better muddy their activities. This has been the case for 11 years.

If you want to make an accusation, please only do so with solid evidence including line by line combat logs that report in milliseconds and videos. Screenshots of the ESO death recap are irrelevant.

You don't need to be a chemist to know where there's smoke there's fire.

We're just here looking for some help but criticizing us for talking about the problem isn't helpful. I mean the way some of these things happen there's no guarantee we really have the right tools for all the data someone else might 'demand' from us.

Criticism isn't the same as denial. The the problem is that many claims get muddied with supposition and misunderstanding, often on topics that are absolutely well understood and inherently a part of the game. This is why the comment suggests doing research, providing evidence, and asking question with an open mind so that others have a chance to explain what happened. Because, yeah - cheating does happen. But many many many examples are obviously not cheating but just a lack of understanding.

The point of criticism is to help improve, not to belittle. and I don't see any evidence in the comment you quoted that they were doing anything other than trying to help.

Radiate77

Could be a desynch from a new u46 bug, or from lag, or soft-cheating. Not really enough to go off of on a screenshot of a common UI error that tends to be more beneficial than not.

Your best bet is to report the player “using the macro” if you feel like they are cheating, and if it is found that they are; problem solved.

Not really much else that anyone on these forums can do to help with the problem.

Vulkunne

Sluggy wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

See, even in this thread, there are examples of conjectures based on other conjectures. That's the problem with unsubstantiated claims.

So someone is going to read this thread, later die in a way they don't understand in PVP and take these posts at face value -- instead of learning how they actually died so they can try to avoid that in the future.

Meanwhile actual cheaters will point to threads like these and be like "omg eso players so paranoid cheat engine lololololol" to better muddy their activities. This has been the case for 11 years.

If you want to make an accusation, please only do so with solid evidence including line by line combat logs that report in milliseconds and videos. Screenshots of the ESO death recap are irrelevant.

You don't need to be a chemist to know where there's smoke there's fire.

We're just here looking for some help but criticizing us for talking about the problem isn't helpful. I mean the way some of these things happen there's no guarantee we really have the right tools for all the data someone else might 'demand' from us.

Criticism isn't the same as denial. The the problem is that many claims get muddied with supposition and misunderstanding, often on topics that are absolutely well understood and inherently a part of the game. This is why the comment suggests doing research, providing evidence, and asking question with an open mind so that others have a chance to explain what happened. Because, yeah - cheating does happen. But many many many examples are obviously not cheating but just a lack of understanding.

The point of criticism is to help improve, not to belittle. and I don't see any evidence in the comment you quoted that they were doing anything other than trying to help.

I never said they weren't trying to help. However, again, as I have said before, and have noticed on here at times in the past, even when information is provided, it generally will still produce a lively argument and not everyone is going to agree with the results of whatever data is provided and even if the truth is found, things usually won't change for other reasons that have a shared interest with supposed issue being discussed, yet these reasons are completely unrelated to the data collected and unaffected by it. In other words, something completely and totally unrelated to the data, yet relative to the issue found is causing the same and that data on the first issue is worthless because of this new issue from another place and it being such that things can't be changed because of it (form/function).

It's not just 'scolding' folks reporting issues for not having better data about the problem, but it could be a case, not uncommon, where it still won't matter because there's another feature or an architecture obstacle somewhere that establishes limits, which produces the issue. Yes, it's good to have data, to have something when we can but when things like this happen sometimes a manual workaround is your best friend. And in this case simply avoiding this situation and going with your 'nose' on the matter will probably be the fastest and best help you can hope for.

Again, many of us simply do not have the tools to go toe-to-toe with 'experts' and 'authorities' over something we know is screwed up. Sometimes you just got to ask for help and hope for the best. But if you do, and I've seen this more than a few times on the internet, rebuffing someone for stating there's a problem and place the entire burden of proof for the issue on them, with no thought about whether or not that person(s) can even provide the things you ask for, then what that does is send a message for people to not say anything.

That's why in PvP anymore, I stay quiet. Not meaning, don't report something but like meaning don't be too much of a menace and attract unwanted attention, especially when you have something to lose. But aside from that the rest of your thought here sounds good to me. Welcome to reply but I think that's all I have to say about this. As a case in point, even after all this discussion the OP's problem still hasn't been resolved and sadly... it probably won't be for a long long time.

Lucasalex92

i think it just shouldn't happen and should be fix in this case

CameraBeardThePirate

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

LA, Bash and regular skills have seperate cd's - so its Skill+LA+3xBash within a single GCD

Well sort of. Due to lag time between the server and client you can't fit that last bash in even if you were to use a macro. LA+Skill+Bash+Bash

Well lets just say you can choke your client packets to be sent when you think they are ready to be sent.

Cool, but that wouldn't be a macro at that point.

Aces-High-82

Who sane would spent 2h an evening bashing via mousewheel...ofc you macro that in regard of your wrist health;D

BXR_Lonestar

MJallday wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is a bug which can occur with any buff or debuff depending on the server state if it registers that it expires correctly or not.

The most annoying one is the 'streak' bug which occurs and makes you constantly break free instead of bashing.

These bugged buffs/debuffs are only removed when transitioning zone or relogging.



As for the thing about macro's as other users have said macro's dont 'speed up' what is possible to do manually they just make it easily repeatable.

What you got hit by is delayed damage skills + animation cancelling most likely.

For example Light attack + Skill + Bash can all occur within basically 1 GCD. then you can also be hit with skills which were pre-casted or have some timed explosion affect. Examples of which are 'Ulfsilds Contingency', 'Deep Fissure', 'Proximity detonation' as well as many others

What is bolded may be true but when a macro is used in conjunction with ESO's desyncing in PVP, you can have 5+ skills hit you within an instant and you will be dead before any damage is registered. It is absolutely ridiculous. In PVE, a macro would give you an advantage in terms of consistent DPS (no human error). There is a reason using such a tool is not allowed in this game.

this already happens in PVP on consoles - desynicing and basically obliterate you on 0.1 of a second. you wont even see who killed you sometimes.

Yes, I realize it happens on rare occasions, but when someone can do it to you basically on demand, any time they want, and the desync is so bad you have to go through a 10 minute cycle to be able to log back in, something is DEFINITELY wrong and enforcement action should be taken. The way I see it, at best, it is exploitation of a known issue. At worst, they've gotta be using a macro/modded control.

Either way, I wish Zos would take a hard look at it because it really is becoming a big issue in PVP - at least in the server I play on.