Sorc Balance

Tannus15 · May 14

honestly the patch notes read like someone has trauma from sorc in PvP and it colours everything they do balance wise.

on crystal frags:
"We've lagged a bit behind on updating this morph to persist through bar swap out of concern for making Sorcerer that much more powerful in PvP"

on mages fury:
"We're tuning down the grace period of the infamous "auto execute" ability both in anticipation for subclassing and to tone down the Sorcerer's ability to easily secure kills, especially when they themselves aren't the ones always earning it."

the bound arms nerf was just wild. we're nerfing this skill because that other morph of a skill no one uses might be slightly too strong now with this, but don't worry about relentless focus which has the same interaction, that's totally fine.

i honestly don't understand where the hostility for sorcs come from. it's the one class that the devs make 100% sure not to buff in any meaningful way.

Tannus15 · May 14

I'm fine with the concept of non pet sorcs should just replace the pet skill line. that makes total sense to me. you're intentionally ignoring a chunk of the base class, so just replace it.
however that very much exposes issues with the design of sorc recently.

Beacon of Oblivion
can we have a conversation about the class set for the sorc pet skill line and the only way to use it is to now remove the pet skill line. this is insane and makes no sense.

Scribing class mastery
this is only good if you remove the pet skill line.

again, what are we doing zos? instead of leaning into what sorcs do, summons, you are rewarding players for not doing the thing. it would be like making Aetheric Lancer only able to proc if you don't have jabs slotted on either bar.

VoidCommander · May 15

Tannus15 wrote: »

I'm fine with the concept of non pet sorcs should just replace the pet skill line. that makes total sense to me. you're intentionally ignoring a chunk of the base class, so just replace it.
however that very much exposes issues with the design of sorc recently.

Beacon of Oblivion
can we have a conversation about the class set for the sorc pet skill line and the only way to use it is to now remove the pet skill line. this is insane and makes no sense.

Scribing class mastery
this is only good if you remove the pet skill line.

again, what are we doing zos? instead of leaning into what sorcs do, summons, you are rewarding players for not doing the thing. it would be like making Aetheric Lancer only able to proc if you don't have jabs slotted on either bar.

I mean I’m excited to have a free +15% damage set plus a class master script that makes a scribing spammable hit like a truck compared to everything else. Will it be top tier meta? No, but neither will anything that isn’t True arcanist with banner.

No one will care if non-pet sorc only deals 110k dps instead of a templar’s 120k dps, because the arcanist will be flinging out over 130k dps without effort.

ZhuJiuyin · May 16

Tannus15 wrote: »

I'm fine with the concept of non pet sorcs should just replace the pet skill line. that makes total sense to me. you're intentionally ignoring a chunk of the base class, so just replace it.
however that very much exposes issues with the design of sorc recently.

Beacon of Oblivion
can we have a conversation about the class set for the sorc pet skill line and the only way to use it is to now remove the pet skill line. this is insane and makes no sense.

Scribing class mastery
this is only good if you remove the pet skill line.

again, what are we doing zos? instead of leaning into what sorcs do, summons, you are rewarding players for not doing the thing. it would be like making Aetheric Lancer only able to proc if you don't have jabs slotted on either bar.

This is just the result of Sorc being patched up so many times because the developers couldn't figure out how to make pet sorcs coexist with nonpet sorcs.
I don't see any reason to keep Sorc tied to pets, and there have been many requests from main Sorc players over the past few patches to make non-pet Sorcs viable. In the past, since there were no DLC classes like Warden and Necro, it made sense to let Sorc take on the role of pet summoner. But when classes like Warden and Necro, which are more suitable for pet summoners, appeared, it seemed meaningless to still bind Sorc to pets.
The sentence "Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole." is extremely inappropriate and may even be interpreted as a provocation to players.

Tannus15 · May 16

VoidCommander wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I'm fine with the concept of non pet sorcs should just replace the pet skill line. that makes total sense to me. you're intentionally ignoring a chunk of the base class, so just replace it.
however that very much exposes issues with the design of sorc recently.

Beacon of Oblivion
can we have a conversation about the class set for the sorc pet skill line and the only way to use it is to now remove the pet skill line. this is insane and makes no sense.

Scribing class mastery
this is only good if you remove the pet skill line.

again, what are we doing zos? instead of leaning into what sorcs do, summons, you are rewarding players for not doing the thing. it would be like making Aetheric Lancer only able to proc if you don't have jabs slotted on either bar.

I mean I’m excited to have a free +15% damage set plus a class master script that makes a scribing spammable hit like a truck compared to everything else. Will it be top tier meta? No, but neither will anything that isn’t True arcanist with banner.

No one will care if non-pet sorc only deals 110k dps instead of a templar’s 120k dps, because the arcanist will be flinging out over 130k dps without effort.

your'e so off the mark i don't know what to say.

shocking soul with class mastery has a hard time keeping up with force pulse once you factor in the status effects and triple hits getting extra procs and the significantly higher cleave from force pulse.
and force pulse isn't even a good spammable.

here

force pulse:

shocking soul with class mastery

it's just not good. you get no passives with shocking soul, the extra cleave damage is too little to matter and you have arbitrary restrictions to pull it off.
I really wanted sorc shocking soul to good, but it just isn't.

status effects from force pulse

vs class mastery and status from the shocking soul build

the numbers are right there.

the sorc banner is worse. it does a laughable amount of dps. no one should bother with it. ever. i think last i checked it was something like 1.5k dps. it's garbage.

i was going to do a parse comparing tide born to oblivion, but then i thought why bother. the result is obvious.

because of the way damage is calculated, damage to monsters is literally worth more than damage done. minor and major slayer, minor and major berserk, aplitude they all dilute the damage done pool making 15% damage done have less impact than 12% damage to monsters.

it's just math.

sorc mastery could be good, if we could use it with the stronger builds. maybe. with a little buff. but here is the thing, the "good" no pet builds need to run dread, so you should be running runeblades as spammable. want to know what that looks like?

here is one i prepared earlier

Tannus15 · May 16

just to make it clear, i've spent a LOT of time parsing and mess around with sorc this pts.
I really want to know what skill lines to level for my mag sorc main.

sorc class mastery is BAD. i would take literally any other class mastery over sorc on the banner, it's far and away the worse, most useless mastery for the banner.
on shocking soul it's ok, but the arbitrary restriction and lack of passives make it far weaker than you'd expect.

2 of the best build options are either warden for execute on the bear, or necro with blighted blastbones. both of those options just break sorc class mastery.

daedric prey with storm calling is still strong because you slot so many sorc skills, you end up with a lot of extra weapon damage.

dark magic is a dead skill line. frags still hits hard, but it's not enough on it's own.

if you want to go "no pet", the only really viable option is to take herald of the tome and go wtih rune blades or beam. then you can be a weaker version of an arcanist because their class mastery is actually VERY OP.

Turtle_Bot · May 16

Tannus15 wrote: »

your'e so off the mark i don't know what to say.

shocking soul with class mastery has a hard time keeping up with force pulse once you factor in the status effects and triple hits getting extra procs and the significantly higher cleave from force pulse.
and force pulse isn't even a good spammable.

here
force pulse:

shocking soul with class mastery

it's just not good. you get no passives with shocking soul, the extra cleave damage is too little to matter and you have arbitrary restrictions to pull it off.
I really wanted sorc shocking soul to good, but it just isn't.

status effects from force pulse

vs class mastery and status from the shocking soul build

the numbers are right there.

the sorc banner is worse. it does a laughable amount of dps. no one should bother with it. ever. i think last i checked it was something like 1.5k dps. it's garbage.

i was going to do a parse comparing tide born to oblivion, but then i thought why bother. the result is obvious.

because of the way damage is calculated, damage to monsters is literally worth more than damage done. minor and major slayer, minor and major berserk, aplitude they all dilute the damage done pool making 15% damage done have less impact than 12% damage to monsters.

it's just math.

sorc mastery could be good, if we could use it with the stronger builds. maybe. with a little buff. but here is the thing, the "good" no pet builds need to run dread, so you should be running runeblades as spammable. want to know what that looks like?

here is one i prepared earlier

Spoiler'd to save space

Curious how shocking soul (with class mastery) performs with DW front bar instead of lightning staff? Does that make up the damage difference?

Force pulse definitely seems better (from these screenshots) for encounters with smaller amounts of adds (or multi-boss encounters) since it's almost full damage for up to 2 nearby enemies compared to shocking soul which is ST outside of the sorc class mastery.

Tannus15 · May 16

DW front bar. I made a couple of dumb mistakes, probably should be closer to 138k

oh, and here is shocking banner

Tannus15 · May 16

and beacon of oblivion instead of highland

FWIW tide-born hit 138k so highland should hit 140k
don't sleep on tide-born in pve.

Turtle_Bot · May 16

Interesting, so from these it seems the strength of wield soul (with sorc mastery) is the flexibility in weapon choice (allowing for stronger weapon choices such as DW over destro) it has over something like force pulse that is locked to destro staff.

Something I have been theory crafting is sorc base class with winters embrace + assassination sub-classed, but I'm not good at parsing so would be curious to see someone better than me try it out.
spammable is frost soul (wield soul frost damage) with sorc class script.

Might perform better for content than parsing though due to the tank passives within the winters embrace line that would provide some buffer in taking damage. Just not sure if it would keep up with herald of tome even with the 15% frost damage buff (note this is not for a beam build).

Tannus15 · May 16

To be fair, I don't think anyone should be looking at 130k to 140k parses and be thinking "omg, this is terrible"

My point is that this build is signficantly stronger on an arcanist due to their crux generation class signatures while the sorc class sig is very weak and outside of specific niche uses shouldn't be used. it's more limiting than it is useful.

Tannus15 · May 16

@Turtle_Bot it's not great. i'm sure someone else could imrpove on my on the fly build

Turtle_Bot · May 16

Tannus15 wrote: »

@Turtle_Bot it's not great. i'm sure someone else could imrpove on my on the fly build

hmmm, was it frost soul and cmx just displaying wrong, or still shocking soul?

either way that is still quite a bit behind the previous parses....

Tannus15 · May 16

Yeah, you can see the grimoires on the top right of the second page

I was having sustain issues so i swapped sorc class mastery for druids. that 1800+ mag drain hurts

Turtle_Bot · May 16

Tannus15 wrote: »

Yeah, you can see the grimoires on the top right of the second page

I was having sustain issues so i swapped sorc class mastery for druids. that 1800+ mag drain hurts

dang, well thanks for testing my theory craft anyway.

chilled seems to hit decently hard though, so might be something there for frost DPS builds

BasP · May 16

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Yeah, you can see the grimoires on the top right of the second page

I was having sustain issues so i swapped sorc class mastery for druids. that 1800+ mag drain hurts

dang, well thanks for testing my theory craft anyway.

chilled seems to hit decently hard though, so might be something there for frost DPS builds

Sadly, even with the 15% buff to Frost Damage I don't think it's possible to create a really good Frost DPS build at the moment. There aren't any great Frost DPS sets to build around and the number of good skills that deal Frost Damage is limited too.

Anyways, I thought I'd that setup above as well, and with a Frost Damage glyph on the back bar and Heroism potions I ended up with 142K DPS. My weaving is slow, so it can definitely do more DPS than that, but sadly Winter's Embrace in its current state doesn't hold a candle to the more meta DPS skill lines.

gc0018 · May 16

Tannus15 wrote: »

on crystal frags:
"We've lagged a bit behind on updating this morph to persist through bar swap out of concern for making Sorcerer that much more powerful in PvP"

LOL, now most of the mage will simply replace the dark magic skill line in PVP. a skill line with only one skill is a big joke.

Solariken · May 16

Daedric Prey should apply to all permanent summons.

This would make it great to use with multiple other class pets without letting it buff Blastbones.

Tannus15 · May 17

Solariken wrote: »

Daedric Prey should apply to all permanent summons.

This would make it great to use with multiple other class pets without letting it buff Blastbones.

there are so many possible solutions here. here are a few in no particular order.

move curse to dark magic. Let prey buff all pets, but now only a "pure" sorc can access prey and sorc pets. if you want prey for the pet buff then you're taking a damage line with no passives which should balance the dps gain.

reduce the prey damage buff and buff sorc pets by a value that makes their dps the same as live overall. allow prey to buff all pets again and just enjoy the cool interaction.

restrict prey and change oblivion and sorc mastery to work in the same way. right now it's a mystery as to how things are going to interact with prey and oblivion and the class mastery. it shouldn't be this complicated. some consistancy please.

ZhuJiuyin · May 17

Solariken wrote: »

Daedric Prey should apply to all permanent summons.

This would make it great to use with multiple other class pets without letting it buff Blastbones.

I don't think this is a viable solution, since the only permanent summons are the sorc pet and Warden bear, and it would make the Sorc's Storm Atronach lose a lot of dps.
I think a better way is to allow permanent summons and ultimate pets to be buffed by Daedric Prey, and mark Colossus as a pet so that it can be buffed by Daedric Prey (to make up for the disadvantage that Necro's pet is not a permanent summon, so that Necro can also get a dps increase.)

BasP · May 17

Tannus15 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Daedric Prey should apply to all permanent summons.

This would make it great to use with multiple other class pets without letting it buff Blastbones.

reduce the prey damage buff and buff sorc pets by a value that makes their dps the same as live overall. allow prey to buff all pets again and just enjoy the cool interaction.

That would definitely have my preference. I don't like the pets myself, but it seems like quite a few players look forward to building some kind of zookeeper build when subclassing goes live. For them, it'd be cool if Daedric Prey would just buff all pets by 20% or something.

Besides, the base DPS of the Sorcerer's pets is so low that I'm not sure if Daedric Prey is even worth using for a subclassed build at the moment. I briefly tried an Animal Companions + Assassination + Daedric Summoning setup and my DPS was a smidge higher with Deep Fissure instead of Daedric Prey for example:

MashmalloMan · May 18

This is my version of patch notes I would of loved to see:

Sorcerer
Encase, Rune Prison, and Daedric Mines have swapped places with Daedric Curse, Conjured Ward, and Bound Armor. The objective being to provide a much stronger sense of the skill line identities towards a pet vs no pet playstyle. Many VFX and names of abilities have been altered to reflect their new purpose and homes.
Daedric Summoning
Daedric Protection passive - Receive Minor Vitality when you or an ally is effected by a Daedric Summoning skill, additionally you receive 5% mitigation.

Defensive Rune - This skill now also applies to your pets. While slotted on either bar, if a permanent pet is killed, revive them automatically after a 2s delay. This effect has a 60s cooldown.

Rune Cage - No longer stuns, majority of Sorc's rely on Streak as a class defining stun, little reason to have 2 options in 1 class. Additionally, long ranged stuns can be found elsewhere through Subclassing or Scribing when it was previously much rarer to find. This ability has been repurposed into a spammable that directs your pets to target the enemy hit. (Insert other effects here like Empower, see Shattering Spines below for pet damage amp).

Shattering Spines - no longer Immobilizes, continues to deal damage after 4s. Now applies +40% damage received from Daedric Pets and +20% damage received from non Daedric Pets for 10s to any enemy hit instead of 10s of Major Maim. Yes, this is an AOE pet damage amp.

Vibrant Shroud - no longer applies Minor Vitality as that's been moved to the Daedric Protection passive, now Immobilizes for 4s in addition to its original effects of 10s of Major Maim and a heal.

Daedric Refuge - any time a ward is triggered, it also applies to a permanent pet with the lowest health in addition to its original effect.

Twilight Tormentor and Volatile Familiar - passive damage increased by ~20% to make up for the lower pet damage amp moved from old Daedric Prey to new Shattering Spines.

Dark Magic
Blood Magic passive - reduced from 10% Max HP to 5% Max HP, Stamina, or Magicka, whichever is highest.

Exploitation passive - additionally gives +2% direct damage done per Dark Magic skill slotted.

Daedric Prey - no longer increases pet damage dealt, instead applies a strong DOT over the 6s duration.

Haunting Curse - Now applies Major Breach (or something else, it's just completely overshadowed by Warden's Deep Fissure now).

Bound Armor - All morphs now give 6% Stamina and Magicka instead of each morph giving only 8% Magicka or only 8% Stamina.

Conjured Ward - this skill and all morphs now scale based on highest Max HP, Max Stamina, or Max Magicka, whichever is highest.
Regenerative Ward - no longer heals for 5% Magicka or HP since the effect is now found via the Blood Magic passive. No longer shields pets, that effect is moved to Daedric Refuge.

I didn't bother coming up with new names or VFX, I just pointed it out to show how silly it is to say x skill belongs in y location simply because of the name or style, I'd focus on the functionality and purpose of the skills used within pet vs no pet playstyles. The names and VFX if necessary can be adjusted, although I'd argue in most cases having all lines work towards a cohesive class is still fun. Haunting Curse and Daedric Mines exemplify ZOS's stance on the matter as well.

Also some passives like Persistence and Rebate could swap or change seeing as Daedric Summoning is more centered on support, I just didn't have a strong opinion about them to make a decision that would matter enough to mention. Also not touching on no pet vs pet DPS balance, for that there would need to be changes to Bound Armaments, Curse, Fury, Lighting Splash, and more.

Also also, yeah direct damage done per Dark Magic skill slotted seems strong on the surface, but this idea is bundled with other non 100% DPS subclassing lines receiving the same treatment. Lines like Dawn's Wrath and Earthen Heart which have terrible passives, but great damage skills which will inevitably die next patch unfortunately. Additionally, NB and DK's minor group buff passives still provide a bonus on the side, there is no argument as to why other classes like Sorc, Templar, Arc, and Warden can't do the same.

Actually to this last point, I'd suggest a change to move all group minor class buffs to the main class choice so you can't steal it via subclassing and they feel like integral parts to the class you pick seeing as the current incentives of 2-3 lines, class scripts, and class sets can be completely ignored.

Vaqual · May 18

MashmalloMan wrote: »

This is my version of patch notes I would of loved to see:

Sorcerer
Encase, Rune Prison, and Daedric Mines have swapped places with Daedric Curse, Conjured Ward, and Bound Armor. The objective being to provide a much stronger sense of the skill line identities towards a pet vs no pet playstyle. Many VFX and names of abilities have been altered to reflect their new purpose and homes.
Daedric Summoning
Daedric Protection passive - Receive Minor Vitality when you or an ally is effected by a Daedric Summoning skill, additionally you receive 5% mitigation.

Defensive Rune - This skill now also applies to your pets. While slotted on either bar, if a permanent pet is killed, revive them automatically after a 2s delay. This effect has a 60s cooldown.

Rune Cage - No longer stuns, majority of Sorc's rely on Streak as a class defining stun, little reason to have 2 options in 1 class. Additionally, long ranged stuns can be found elsewhere through Subclassing or Scribing when it was previously much rarer to find. This ability has been repurposed into a spammable that directs your pets to target the enemy hit. (Insert other effects here like Empower, see Shattering Spines below for pet damage amp).

Shattering Spines - no longer Immobilizes, continues to deal damage after 4s. Now applies +40% damage received from Daedric Pets and +20% damage received from non Daedric Pets for 10s to any enemy hit instead of 10s of Major Maim. Yes, this is an AOE pet damage amp.

Vibrant Shroud - no longer applies Minor Vitality as that's been moved to the Daedric Protection passive, now Immobilizes for 4s in addition to its original effects of 10s of Major Maim and a heal.

Daedric Refuge - any time a ward is triggered, it also applies to a permanent pet with the lowest health in addition to its original effect.

Twilight Tormentor and Volatile Familiar - passive damage increased by ~20% to make up for the lower pet damage amp moved from old Daedric Prey to new Shattering Spines.

Dark Magic
Blood Magic passive - reduced from 10% Max HP to 5% Max HP, Stamina, or Magicka, whichever is highest.

Exploitation passive - additionally gives +2% direct damage done per Dark Magic skill slotted.

Daedric Prey - no longer increases pet damage dealt, instead applies a strong DOT over the 6s duration.

Haunting Curse - Now applies Major Breach (or something else, it's just completely overshadowed by Warden's Deep Fissure now).

Bound Armor - All morphs now give 6% Stamina and Magicka instead of each morph giving only 8% Magicka or only 8% Stamina.

Conjured Ward - this skill and all morphs now scale based on highest Max HP, Max Stamina, or Max Magicka, whichever is highest.
Regenerative Ward - no longer heals for 5% Magicka or HP since the effect is now found via the Blood Magic passive. No longer shields pets, that effect is moved to Daedric Refuge.

I didn't bother coming up with new names or VFX, I just pointed it out to show how silly it is to say x skill belongs in y location simply because of the name or style, I'd focus on the functionality and purpose of the skills used within pet vs no pet playstyles. The names and VFX if necessary can be adjusted, although I'd argue in most cases having all lines work towards a cohesive class is still fun. Haunting Curse and Daedric Mines exemplify ZOS's stance on the matter as well.

Also some passives like Persistence and Rebate could swap or change seeing as Daedric Summoning is more centered on support, I just didn't have a strong opinion about them to make a decision that would matter enough to mention. Also not touching on no pet vs pet DPS balance, for that there would need to be changes to Bound Armaments, Curse, Fury, Lighting Splash, and more.

Also also, yeah direct damage done per Dark Magic skill slotted seems strong on the surface, but this idea is bundled with other non 100% DPS subclassing lines receiving the same treatment. Lines like Dawn's Wrath and Earthen Heart which have terrible passives, but great damage skills which will inevitably die next patch unfortunately. Additionally, NB and DK's minor group buff passives still provide a bonus on the side, there is no argument as to why other classes like Sorc, Templar, Arc, and Warden can't do the same.

Actually to this last point, I'd suggest a change to move all group minor class buffs to the main class choice so you can't steal it via subclassing and they feel like integral parts to the class you pick seeing as the current incentives of 2-3 lines, class scripts, and class sets can be completely ignored.

That would be a more extreme power injection than U41 and I hope it doesn't happen.

Tannus15 · May 18

BasP wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Daedric Prey should apply to all permanent summons.

This would make it great to use with multiple other class pets without letting it buff Blastbones.

reduce the prey damage buff and buff sorc pets by a value that makes their dps the same as live overall. allow prey to buff all pets again and just enjoy the cool interaction.

That would definitely have my preference. I don't like the pets myself, but it seems like quite a few players look forward to building some kind of zookeeper build when subclassing goes live. For them, it'd be cool if Daedric Prey would just buff all pets by 20% or something.

Besides, the base DPS of the Sorcerer's pets is so low that I'm not sure if Daedric Prey is even worth using for a subclassed build at the moment. I briefly tried an Animal Companions + Assassination + Daedric Summoning setup and my DPS was a smidge higher with Deep Fissure instead of Daedric Prey for example:

I got the same results. in particular if you're not using the atro, prey just isn't strong enough to justify the slot.

prey should be a 20% buff (same as ritualist) that affects all pets and all sorc pets should be buffed to compensate.

Turtle_Bot · May 19

Tannus15 wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Daedric Prey should apply to all permanent summons.

This would make it great to use with multiple other class pets without letting it buff Blastbones.

reduce the prey damage buff and buff sorc pets by a value that makes their dps the same as live overall. allow prey to buff all pets again and just enjoy the cool interaction.

That would definitely have my preference. I don't like the pets myself, but it seems like quite a few players look forward to building some kind of zookeeper build when subclassing goes live. For them, it'd be cool if Daedric Prey would just buff all pets by 20% or something.

Besides, the base DPS of the Sorcerer's pets is so low that I'm not sure if Daedric Prey is even worth using for a subclassed build at the moment. I briefly tried an Animal Companions + Assassination + Daedric Summoning setup and my DPS was a smidge higher with Deep Fissure instead of Daedric Prey for example:

I got the same results. in particular if you're not using the atro, prey just isn't strong enough to justify the slot.

prey should be a 20% buff (same as ritualist) that affects all pets and all sorc pets should be buffed to compensate.

Those have been my results from parsing with pets (and prey) vs beam/other, as well (even with my mediocre parsing and 300+ ping where pets + prey would seem to be more effective due to less timers to keep track of/perfectly rotate through). Prey carries sorcs permanent pets, but only Atro makes that entire line worth slotting (for PvE DPS) and only really for the easy group wide major berserk.

The line itself isn't worth it post U46, except as a flex option on 1 of the tanks that would use it for ward, aegis and atro in a more supporting tank role over pure tank. Even then, with sub-classing DPS as high as it is, the major berserk from atro might be worth dropping altogether since a highly organized groups DPS will likely be high enough already without it allowing for a better tanking line to be slotted instead.

Duke_Falcon · May 19

Please don't nerf Mag Sorc in pvp anymore, its going to be unplayable again. Curse damage was already nerf. The Max Mag is getting nerfed, and the heal is getting taken away. All of those changes together make it worse than it was when it was unplayable as a class.

supabicboi · May 20

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

Please don't nerf Mag Sorc in pvp anymore, its going to be unplayable again. Curse damage was already nerf. The Max Mag is getting nerfed, and the heal is getting taken away. All of those changes together make it worse than it was when it was unplayable as a class.

it will be worse than ever before. the only class I play. It will be worse than EVER before. Sorcs are completely nonviable coming next update, same bottom tier as necro has been for years.

Back to the pits. impossible to not subclass.

Yudo · May 20

In the previous adjustments they tried to elevate sorcerers from their bad position both in pve and pvp.
Added heal to shields, gave 10% max magicka for non-pet sorcs. Everyone went nuts, especially in pvp.
Sorc went from Bad-tier to S-tier (a lot of it due to hype imo).

Now they are going full backwards on this??
Removed the heal on shields, and removed the max resources for non-pet sorcs. Though added back again due to heavy feedback at 5%.

We are practically back to that bad-tier spot, but non-pet sorc pushed into a corner, and the "fix" is sublcassing?
Yeah idk about this...

ZhuJiuyin · May 20

Yes, (in PvE) after U46 Sorc will be relegated to the bottom tier along with Necro, as they are severely limited due to their skill mechanics, and Sorc is also the only class without a unique damage buff
Arcanists have a 5% unique buff to Cephaliarch's Flail
DK has Molten Whip, Engulfing Flames unique weapon and spell damage buff and 6% unique fire damage buff
NB has fast ultimate point acquisition from Soul Harvest, and unique Weapon and Spell Damage buff from Relentless Focus
Templar has Solar Barrage's unique 5% class damage buff
Warden has Netch's 5% unique buff
Necro has 3% of Syphon's unique buff

It is already clear that the one who will dominate PVE in U46 will be
Assassination and Herald of the Tome, especially Assassination, not only provide so much Critical, Critical Damage and Weapon and Spell Damage, but also fast ultimate point acquisition from Soul Harvest. In order to prevent players from obtaining ultimate points too quickly, ZOS deliberately weakened PVE sets such as Elnofe and Plunderer, but let go of such a conspicuous elephant as Soul Harvest, which is really incomprehensible.
The preference for a particular class is very obvious in U46.

Duke_Falcon · May 29

Even when Sorc was buffed, it still never surpassed Nightblade in pvp.